Historic Meeting of Palestinian Activists and Israeli Refuseniks

Workers' Daily Internet Edition : Article Index :

Historic Meeting of Palestinian Activists and Israeli Refuseniks

Report by East London Branch of RCPB(ML)

At a meeting in Ilford Town Hall, East London, on October 28, Palestinian activists and Israeli refusenik soldiers shared a platform to call for an end to the occupation, for peace and justice and for finding common ground.

The meeting was organised by Waltham Forest and Redbridge Stop the War, Redbridge Against the War, Walthamstow Campaign for Palestinian Rights, Jews for Justice for Palestinians, ISM London and Newham Stop the War.

Speaking at the meeting were:

Sami Awad, the Executive Director of the Holy Land Trust, a Palestinian NGO working to promote non-violent resistance to Israeli occupation and involved in training Palestinians and international volunteers in non-violent direct action – the Trust’s projects aim to strengthen and improve the lives of children, families and communities in Palestine through programmes that include community development and peace and reconciliation;

Bassim Subayih, a journalist with Bethlehem Television and a tour guide, recent graduate from Bethlehem University in sociology and psychology – Bassim is active in the Palestinian Prisoner’s Association;

Rami Kaplan, a major in the Israeli army, is the highest-ranking officer to refuse to serve in the occupied Palestinian territories and a member of "Courage to Refuse" steering committee – Rami is a student and a lecturer in political philosophy in Tel Aviv University; he has recently served a 28-day sentence in military jail for his refusal; he is among eight soldiers taking an action in the Israeli Supreme Court with the demand to declare the occupation illegal;

Avi Mayorek is a Lieutenant in the Israeli Army Reserves who has completed tours of duty in the occupied territories, totalling about one year, and who this year refused to serve and is part of the Courage to Refuse movement – Avi is an architecture student.

The meeting was chaired by Asad Rehman from Newham Monitoring Association and a Stop the War Coalition national committee member.

The meeting was powerful, intense, and thoughtful. Each speaker presented his experience, his feelings, his views, listening intently to and at times addressing each other. The questions and discussion reflected on some key and difficult issues. The audience that packed the small hall represented diverse sections of the community and of peace and political activists. From this audience came a great will to support the people on the platform in their battle for justice, human rights, and an end to the enmity between the two peoples. People left with a feeling of inspiration, with greater understanding of the situation, and a deeper commitment to continue our campaign of support. Discussions among the speakers continued late into the night over a meal in an Ilford Lane café in the same atmosphere of respect and warmth that had been developing through the evening. There was a sense that this was a historic occasion.

A collection raised over £100 for Medical Aid to Palestine and The Holy Land Trust. There follows a detailed summary of the contributions from the speakers and the ensuing discussion.

Asad Rehman welcomed people to what he said is a crucial meeting, and set it in the context of the September 28 demonstration. "400,000 people marching to stop a war on Iraq, were also marching for freedom for Palestine. As well as the numbers, what is remarkable is the unity of us as people; it reflected the true breadth of this country saying no to war, no to killing. We are honoured tonight to be able to welcome a very distinguished panel of speakers speaking about the situation inside the occupied territories and inside Israel itself. This is a voice many of us do not often hear, courageous brave people, Jewish people in Israel, citizens of Israel who have been campaigning for Palestinian rights and for an end to the occupation.

He thanked Councillors Bob Littlewood and Filly Marvala for the support they were giving this meeting. They had made the use of this hall at such short notice possible.

Charlotte Monro from Waltham Forest and Redbridge Stop the War, speaking on behalf of those who organised the meeting said we are proud to welcome two groups of brave people to speak here in East London.

The idea of this meeting has sparked enthusiastic support from many organisations. Not only will such a meeting reach a different audience, but Palestinians and Israeli people speaking on the same platform is helping to establish that the issue is a fight for justice, rather than a war between two peoples. The oppression and incredible spirit of resistance of the Palestinian people is in the forefront of our minds. The stand the Refuseniks are taking is brave and crucial. How can we, ordinary people, actually influence the course of events faced with powers that appear to have such might? This is a key question we all face. People taking a stand for justice, standing together we can do this.

Bassim Sybeih, a journalist for Bethlehem local television station, described the difficulty Palestinian journalists face in doing their work, and also personal loss that he has experienced.

"There are 20 Palestinian television stations, 10 radio stations and three newspapers. We are the only Arab country in the area to have free press apart from Lebanon. To be a Palestinian journalist is very dangerous; the army shoots at you, Why I don't know. I think it is because we provide a good picture for what they are doing in our cities." "At check points solders ask the nationalities of journalists. When they see from our ID that we are Palestinian they will take our cameras and cassettes, sometimes cover our eyes, and send us back." "Because of the check points we cannot leave Bethlehem to report in other towns".

He described how a journalist colleague had been shot at and injured by settlers and how his uncle, Dr Ahmed a hospital doctor, was assassinated by the Israeli military. When he had to photograph his uncle and he saw his head was blown off, Bassim asked people to imagine how difficult this is.

"What I want is freedom for Palestinian journalists and freedom for Palestinian people. This is my story. I need freedom. We are losing our land all the time to Israeli settlements".

Later when Sami Awad spoke he explained Dr Ahmed was also a friend of theirs and described their disbelief when they were phoned with the news. "He is much too smart to go out in his car during curfew". But Dr Ahmed had had desperate calls all evening from his hospital begging him to come in as they had too many injuries arriving and could not cope. After negotiating through the night with an Israeli army commander to be allowed to go the two-mile journey to his hospital, it was agreed, and details sorted down to the colour of shirt he would wear. As he approached the second check point an Israeli army sniper on a roof shot him in the head, through the car windscreen. Instead of Dr Ahmed reaching the hospital to help the injured and their families, his family had to negotiate with the army all over again to take him from his car to bury him.

Avi Mayorek, a Lieutenant in the Israeli reserves said, "I speak as an Israeli soldier. Also as an Israeli I find it important to start with talking about terror. Terror has become something we live with and cope with on a daily basis. It is a bad situation in Israel. For me it is always in my mind when I am in the street and never leaves, we go to bed and get up with it. I find Palestinian terror most horrible, arbitrary, and I wish they had never used it. So, people may say then ‘why are you not in the occupied territories fighting terror?’ I will explain why I did this action."

Avi described his own background. "My parents immigrated from Poland where after the war the atmosphere towards the Jewish people was very hostile. My father was not told he was Jewish till he was 14 because it was better for him. When they came to Israel they could not stop appreciating that they did not have to conceal, fear discrimination, and could be proud of who they are. This idea of a liberated Jewish country can be put under a title of ‘Zionism’. So I was brought up in an atmosphere of Zionism. But also in a very liberal and democratic atmosphere which values freedom and justice, and equality for everybody. This is something that my parents gave me, it is fundamental.

In Israel the army is something very dominant. Many young people are anxious to join a selective unit, like I did. I was very proud of being a soldier. In our army training, as well as exercises and drills, we were also given lectures and were told there are orders we must not fulfil. We were taught about values of justice and freedom and respect for people. We were also taken to Yad-Vashem [the memorial museum to the holocaust] to see where it leads if you do not follow these values."

Serving in the occupied territories Avi came to understand that the occupation cannot meet with the values he was brought up on. "This is impossible, and I understood that my contribution to my country is zero. I only contribute as a soldier to create hatred, injustice and humiliation to the other people, the Palestinians.

"I want to tell you how I came to know this. I have not served in the hard core of the Intifada, marching in to the camps or guarding Yitzim which is a very isolated settlement and very risky. What I will tell you is about the daily life in the occupied territories. The check points. - But I want to stop for a minute to say something very important to me to say. I know that the Palestinians suffer a lot and every moment is terrible when you meet us, the soldiers, but beyond the uniform and tough face there is a person who has his feelings as well and not all of them are monsters –. The Israeli army consumed, I consumed, huge amounts of Palestinian people’s time, every one of them spends hours and hours waiting at check points, for nothing.

"In Hebron my mission was to guard a settlement of 100, living in this completely Arabic Palestinian city of 200,000 people. When I did this I knew it is wrong because the whole city suffers for this little group of people that live there as if it all belongs to them. I have visited the casbah where it is covered with the Mogan Dovid (the Jewish sign) and all the slogans, I saw everything and I was very sorry for that all the time.

"Getting to a point where you refuse an order, refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories is a very tough decision. I was afraid to disappoint my commanders, my soldiers and my friends. And you know fraternity and friendship within a military unit is something very important a very strong thing. It is very hard to break. I have to say that going to serve in the occupied territories, even for someone like me who is quite sensitive about people, is much easier than to refuse. My decision was very hard to make. It took me eight years to reach a point where I would not cross, would not go back to serve there.

"My action to refuse to serve in occupied territories and to fight the occupation is for Israel as well. I feel Israel should withdraw from the occupation and go back to its own border, to become a normal place and a state that deserves its citizens. Right now I don’t think Israel is a good place to live in. I am doing this for Israel, I feel patriotic about it and I think it is the right thing to do."

Rami Kaplan is a major in the Israeli reserves and a lecturer in political philosophy.

"It is very exciting for me to meet Palestinians. I don’t do it enough, I don’t do it at all in Israel. I think that the separation between the Israelis and Palestinians is one of the means to keep the enmity between the two peoples and the situation as it is now, and this is part of the tragedy.

"Israel is in many ways a democracy. In a democracy the majority of the people decide and all people have to follow this decision in order to keep the laws and the country going in the right direction. But in other ways Israel is not a democracy. Democracy is not only the procedures that you are following, the laws. Democracy is also justice. The essential part of democracy is justice, human rights, equality, freedom. Democracy was designed as system in order to achieve these values in human society.

"There are times and situations, we have seen it quite often in the 20^th century, when a democracy using the procedures of democracy, is doing things which are against these values. In such situations the real democratic and moral citizens who appreciate and cherish the values of democracy should sometimes not follow the procedures of democracy when they conflict with the essence. This is our case of the Refuseniks in Israel, though we want to respect the majority we find it impossible considering what is being done in the territories. Treating an entire people as grade B human beings, humiliating them, oppressing them, is something that is not democratic, and we will not do it.

"It is amazing to see Israeli people who are not bad people, my brother and many of my friends are not agreeing with me. In cases when people are fighting other people for unjust causes and with enmity between people, there is this false consciousness. Making people see things but not understand at all what they are seeing. My fellow officers and soldiers in my battalion, even though they see things we are doing in the territories, see it totally differently to me. The system of media and socialisation make people not truly understand what they are doing.

"This is what we as a movement, the Courage to Refuse are trying to change, to break through. Courage to Refuse was established in January 2002 by two officers of paratroopers who went to Gaza last year and were very shocked by what they saw. They decided not just to refuse but to do something with it by writing a letter to be published, and find other combat soldiers and officers to sign this letter. They hoped to find another 10 but found 52, among them my signature. Within two weeks they had 200 signatures. We really made a dramatic impact for two months and saw a big shift in public opinion. But this did not last, there were other forces more powerful influencing it in the other direction.

"In Israel there is a lot of acceptance of this refusal compared to other countries. Polls in February / March this year showed one third of the Israeli Jewish population, let alone the Arab population, support the right to refuse. This makes me hope there is a chance for change in the future.

"I will now speak on behalf of Israel, though we are a minority: we the Israelis have to try to overcome our blindness of the situation. It is amazing when I come here to a neutral country where people see things with some impartiality, to see the extent that people in Israel are blind.

"I am sure that when Israel will understand that she should reconcile with the Palestinians, take responsibility for what happened to the Palestinians which was Nakbah in Arabic, and we must take out the settlements from the ‘67 territories which are not ours, only then, but for sure then, we will be able to dismantle this enmity between our two peoples."

Sami Awad began by saying that "this has been an evening of many emotions to me. I have never met with Refuseniks before, Israelis who refuse to serve in the occupied Palestinian territories. It is an honour to be on the panel with them. I look forward to your numbers being 50,000, 500,000, - 5 million, that would be the best.

"I will combine aspects of the different stories you have heard in order to explain my story. To see what life is like for Palestinian people Sami invited us on a journey through their day in his apartment, in occupied Bethlehem, with his wife and six-month-old daughter. This was a real day in April. "At 5.30 in the morning we get up, (not because I like getting up at that time, but because our baby daughter is making sure everyone knows she wants her milk). I move the blinds to look out of the window. A million Palestinians will be doing this. We look to see what traffic is outside. If there are cars and pedestrians I know I can have a shave and shower and set off for work. If the street is deserted I know it is a curfew day and we will be trapped in the apartment. Today the street is deserted. So we put a big pot of coffee on." "Curfews for us mean we are trapped in our house for 24 hours continuously for as many days as the Israeli military decide. The longest curfew was in Nablus for 91 days in succession.

"People ask how do we live and eat? An announcement from the military is broadcast through television saying today that the curfew will be lifted for 3 hours. People go out go to the shops for provisions but there is not a lot to do because there is not much in the shops. Though the curfew is lifted inside the towns very few goods can get in. I usually go to check my office is still standing. We are back well before the time the curfew is re-imposed because it is very dangerous to be out near this time" "The building begins to shake as five tanks rumble past our front door, this is something we get used to, every hour."

"Most Palestinians do not have money to buy what little is in the shops. Unemployment fluctuates between 65 and 70%. People live, my family lives, on food and aid from the UN and from charities, Christian and Muslim charities, 80% of food and medicines is supplied by them."

From my window to the east you can see the beautiful landscapes and fields of Bethlehem. To the south window we can see the church of nativity, which was under siege just this April.

"In our Bethlehem apartment we look out to the East on the beautiful Shepherd’s Field that you have read about in the Bible and to the South we can see the Church of Nativity clearly, we felt it very strongly when it was under siege just this April. To the north I can see Jerusalem it is only a five-minute drive but we can't go there without a permit and the Israelis are not giving anyone permits.

"Between Jerusalem and the Shepherd’s Filed lies what used to be a beautiful green mountain we call Jebel Abu Ghneim, a conservation area, owned by Palestinians. Soon after the peace process began, when Palestinians and Israelis were sitting down together, supposedly in good faith, trying to negotiate a peace to put an end to this bloody conflict that has caused so much death and destruction to people on both sides, something started happening on Jebel Abu Ghneim. We saw trees coming down and buildings go up. Now it is covered in the buildings of an Israeli settlement for Jews only to live.

"The sad reality is during the years of the peace process the land confiscated for settlements doubled and settlers increased since 1993 from 100,000 to over 230,000. When they confiscate land for settlements it is not just the land for buildings, but for settler only streets and roads that connect them to each other and to Israel, and 50 – 100 metres either side where no Palestinian can farm his land or build a home.

"This has created a situation where we as Palestinians live in what you know as Bantustans, though when a friend of mine from South Africa visited he laughed and said these are not Bantustans, you are living in prison camps.

"The settlement issue is one of the main reasons why there is so much anger and frustration within the Palestinian community. We see this settlement from our house daily; hundreds of thousands of Palestinians see this all the time. This is the big issue that we face and this is the big issue that ultimately Israeli society has to face, the dismantling and removal of all the illegal settlements and settlers from the occupied territories."

"On the evening of this day in April, the day their friend Dr Ahmed was killed, an announcement came on television – there had been a suicide attack in Jerusalem. "A Palestinian individual had wrapped explosives around his body, gone to Jerusalem to an orthodox section and killed seven Israeli civilians as well as himself. When this happens we ask where is this person from because wherever he is from there will be massive retaliation that night or in a day or so and many Palestinians will die. We ask what organisation is he from and what is his story. Behind every such act there is a story.

"For the first time when we saw the name on the screen this was someone we knew." He was a very ordinary young man who came to the Human Rights Offices, "a jeans and tea-shirt and cap guy. Four months earlier this young man's cousin and best friend had been shot in the back as he was leaving a protest, by an Israeli soldier This individual, for four months, had devoted his life to revenge for that act and it continued the vicious cycle of violence".

"On a curfew night he was able to sneak out of Bethlehem and around many military check points undetected. This same night that Dr Ahmed was shot after he organised and co-ordinated his trip with the Israeli military. The measures taken by the Israeli government are not protecting the Israeli population. When Sharon came to office he promised complete security to the Israeli people within 100 days. More Israelis have been killed in his reign than at times of war.

"Everyone on this platform has used the word humiliation. That is what we are subject to, people being treated like animals, at the checkpoints. Soldiers and settlers are all we see so that is how we judge the Israeli people. That is why it is so good to meet the Refuseniks, I now have a message to take back to my people. We need to support and strengthen your work.

Questions and discussion

People asked the speakers about the peace movements in both Israel and Palestine, and about how other Israeli soldiers felt about the Refuseniks’ stand, were many in agreement but frightened to refuse because of the consequences and going to jail?

Sami responded first, explaining "What we as Palestinians are engaged in is a movement of resistance, it is not a movement for peace. It is a movement to make us and our voices heard within the Israeli community and the rest of the world." "The Palestinian people engaged in a process of peace. We found that it was not as we thought a negotiation between equals".

"There is a lot of discussion within the Palestinian community at this time about what form resistance should take to be effective. Since the incursions in April when our small arms were not enough to resist the tanks and the F16s and prevent the brutal violence, internationally condemned and in breach of international law - and the destruction of our infrastructure, people have been looking back to see what more could be done. Our organisation advocates adopting non-violent means to resist occupation, and many others have been considering this. This is as non-violent resistance to occupation not as a non-violent peace movement.

"Once we reach the point where we are able to look our Israeli counterpart eye to eye as equal, then we are able to negotiate to say what the solution should be, what peace should be, founded on the principles of justice, not simply on how to have security based on the maximum amount of property that can be taken from the other side."

Asked if there was hostility to the idea of non- violence from others engaged in resistance Sami said that at this time, it is very difficult for people to talk about non-violence. "With the emotions continually boiling it is difficult for people to step back and look at the bigger picture." Palestinians have a long history of using civil disobedience – strikes, burning ID cards, buying Palestinian not Israeli goods. Just recently we have seen people coming out on at least two big demonstrations in defiance of the curfew.

"But Sharon does not want a non violent movement to develop in Palestine. I will tell you the evidence for this. A few months back Fateh the biggest political party was calling on its members to engage in a campaign of civil disobedience (‘non-violent’) mass resistance. It was simultaneously negotiating with Hamas to issue a joint letter unilaterally declaring a cease-fire on civilians within Israel. The night before this letter was to be issued Israel sent an F16 jet to drop a one ton bomb on an apartment block and killed 14 people 9 of them children, to assassinate, they said, one Muslim militant. Now we know that if they want to they can and have singled out and assassinated one individual. Why would they drop a one ton bomb on an apartment block in the night when everyone is sleeping if they did not want civilian deaths? This was to make people so furious that the cease-fire declaration became completely derailed."

On how fellow soldiers see their stand, Rami described his experience: " When I was going to refuse and to be sent to jail I spoke to a lot of soldiers in my company. Many supported and wished me luck, they saw it also as helping them not going to the territories. Others respect but disagree because they think it is an anarchistic act, there is something in this consideration because refusing is saying something about the non-unity of the Israeli society. Others respect our stand, but disagree because they think the problem is ‘Palestinian suicide bombing and the Palestinians rejected a good peace deal’, which is unfortunately still the way the majority of Israeli people see it.

"Today going to military jail is not worse than going to Nablus, so I don’t think people are afraid from the physical side. But people are afraid from society, from condemning, afraid from within themselves; you have to be there be part of Israeli society to understand this.

Avi added "You must understand, there are many, many Israelis who do go to serve but they hate it, they do not agree with the occupation. They do not refuse because this is something that will break with the system and this is a very strong system, any one of you who has been in a system knows how difficult this can be, it is a struggle within ourselves. My hope is that more and more people will see that this is an action that is not just your right, but your obligation to make." Many times individuals will refuse to follow orders or fly missions they feel are immoral or illegal, but this is accepted and kept quiet.

Someone asked the Refuseniks if they work with these people and the different refusal movements within the army like the young peoples’ movement. Rami’s view is that it is a good thing that there is a variation in tactics. "As a major I know that it is good to attack from different directions, everyone has their own part and position in society and so is able to influence another part of the society."

Questions and discussion then focussed on the separation of the two peoples, the one or two state solution, and on US aid to Israel.

Sami reflecting back on historical times said that Muslims Jews and Christians lived together in peace. "I believe that three faiths can live together. What needs to be done is that the idea of one group of people feeling that they are better than the rest, that they are the chosen people, this is their Promised Land, has to end. What I attack here is the idea of Zionism. Zionism has to end in order for all of us to be able to live in peace.

A member of the audience asked if two states, a Palestinian and Israeli state would not make the division between the peoples permanent, would it not be better to have one state where people lived in equality. Avi responded – "Unlike our friends here we have come to express an idea of a group of soldiers, we are not very comfortable to answer political questions like this. But I want to bless you and congratulate you on you innocence, we can all hope, it is a very beautiful question."

Rami pointed out that the separation did not start in 1948. Back in the 1920s there was a little organisation called Bri Shalom, with some well known philosophers, they warned that this separation is going to end very badly, "…and we are still paying the price for this mistake back then."

On US aid Sami pointed out the US gives $6bn annually in aid to Israel, most to be spent on arms that then have to be bought from the US, so the money goes back to the arms industry there. "It is, I will say, a money laundering exercise to transfer money from the US government directly to the military establishment. It is a very big issue to be addressed in the US."

Further contributions from the audience covered the need to get the Refuseniks’ message out to the Jewish community here - the Refuseniks said this was the primary aim of their tour, the joint actions between Israelis and Palestinians such as the demonstrations in Abu Dis against the separation wall being constructed, and an observation that when people can directly get together they will find solutions.

Summing up

Bassim finished with the call that the occupation must end so Palestinians and Israelis could live side by side in two states, and for freedom for Palestine and Palestinian Journalists.

Rami and Avi, addressing the Palestinian speakers and said how much they appreciated what they were doing and the way they are working and wished them well in their work.

In assessing the strength of the peace movement in Israel Rami gave the view that those fighting the occupation in Israel are only succeeding in stemming the flow away at this time, not succeeding in making a new trend towards an end to the occupation. "But on the other hand I think there is ground for hope, The settlers are the only group within Israeli society who has a real interest in the occupation, no one else, and they are a tiny minority numerically. The support for the occupation is more fragile than we might think. We are going into a new constellation in Israeli politics, things are changing taking us into a new thinking, may be towards the end of the occupation. I think that the Palestinians have an important role in this. The suicide attacks, and I am not talking about any normative issue, are jamming tactically the prospects of peace. It is good thinking what Sami is doing, and I know that Fateh and the main stream Palestinian forces are working to stop these attacks. So there is hope that things will change. Avi appealed that any decent human being must condemn killing innocent people no matter who they are, this is on both sides, no one has the right to harm anyone else.

Sami expressed his agreement on this, and then addressed the audience on what needs to be done. "This battle that is being fought between Palestine and Israel is not confined between the Jordan and the sea, it is something that affects every single one of us, the saddest example is September 11^th when the Palestinian struggle was used as an excuse for this act.

"You are an important part of the forces engaged in this battle for peace and for justice." He talked of the impact of protests and actions in the communities in the United States. "And I see here across the UK there is this growing movement. Now your movement is focussed on Iraq, you have successfully linked the issue of Palestine with Iraq – ‘why do we follow UN resolutions on one and not another?’ But when the issue of Iraq is resolved, either through war or through peace, will you forget us? In a few months time will you continue the demonstrations for the freedom of Palestine?

I want to encourage you to continue on this path. It is important for us, and for Israel, your work in order to affect and change the leaders of this world who think they can control and manipulate every single one of us for their own personal interests, your role is very crucial."

Labour Councillor Filly Marvala thanked the Palestinian and Israeli participants and presented them with bunches of flowers. "It was an excellently attended meeting with a diverse range of views being expressed. We've seen enough of war, let our leaders give peace a chance," said Councillor Marvala.

Labour Councillor Bob Littlewood suggested the evenings proceedings should be reproduced on the BBC's Newsnight programme and then people might have an idea what was going on in Israel and Palestine.